Weapon element

Originally posted by [b]malufett[/b]
can you elaborate further by giving examples thanks...

do mean by stat atk is atk from bare hands?

Originally posted by [b]Ikari Gendo[/b]
e.g. you should hit the emperium with aspersion because the stat atk still hits
stat atk is the atk from str/dex and base lvl

Originally posted by [b]Reapeddeamon[/b]
I guess the are referending to:
http://irowiki.org/wiki/Status_ATK#Status_ATK

Originally posted by [b]malufett[/b]
[CODE]e.g. you should hit the emperium with aspersion because the stat atk still hits[/CODE]
You can only hit Emperium if and only if GVG/WOE is on, you have sufficient guild skill & level...

and Asperio's effect will be remove if you remove your weapon and it does not work in bare hands

hmm..sorry but still it is not clear enough for me...

Originally posted by [b]Reapeddeamon[/b]
We got WoE on our server and some priest was buffing a frenzy RK asperio wich changes his atk to holy so he was hitting the emp which is holy element with a holy weapon and was missing what seem legit to us cause of ele reduction holy does 0% on holy but if the forumulas that are given from irowiki are correct then not he complete Atk is force to holy the statsATK part would be remain neutral that the Rk would be able to hitting to emp still if he has a holy weapon.

Originally posted by [b]malufett[/b]
hmm..now I get it...

and this is how it works when you are using a weapon your status atk is computed along with the weapon atk so the damage your dealing is now watk..

ill give you a real time example..

example you are using a flaming sword then you will try to hit a fire do you think if the sword misses the fire will you use your hand to hit the fire while holding the sword?? I don't think so..XD

hope you get it..^^

Originally posted by [b]Roth[/b]
Don't be stupid in comparing the stuff to reality.

In official servers, notably in iRO, status attack is neutral, and Mind Wind (taekwon skill) is the only skill that changes its element. Endows and Aspersio only affect weapon attack.

So it's basically

[status atk: neutral] + [weapon atk: variable] = your attack damage.

Originally posted by [b]Reapeddeamon[/b]
Malufett if u see that so u should be able to hit a holy mob with bare hands even if u have an holy endow ...

but that is even not given...

Originally posted by [b]malufett[/b]
[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Don't be stupid in comparing the stuff to reality.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]In official servers, notably in iRO, status attack is neutral, and Mind Wind (taekwon skill) is the only skill that changes its element. Endows and Aspersio only affect weapon attack.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]So it's basically[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][status atk: neutral] + [weapon atk: variable] = your attack damage.[/size][/font][/color][/quote]

yes I know but that is how it works...


[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]Malufett if u see that so u should be able to hit a holy mob with bare hands even if u have an holy endow ...[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]but that is even not given...[/size][/font][/color][/quote]
this is more appealing to me as a bug...

Originally posted by [b]Reapeddeamon[/b]
[quote]this is more appealing to me as a bug...[/quote]

[img]http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/545369_334755766600193_1472705705_n.jpg[/img]

Originally posted by [b]malufett[/b]
wew...you two make my nose bleed...hahaha..

if you just said to us that the weapon endowing skills/items is affecting bare hands where it should not...then it makes our life easier...XD

anyway..I confirmed this....

@Ikari Gendo
please confirm if Reapeddeamon is telling us the way you are thinking...because I'm really confuse on your statements...

Originally posted by [b]Ikari Gendo[/b]
no my statment was that the stat atk (neutral ele) still hit if you attack a monster with holy armor with a holy weapon

Originally posted by [b]malufett[/b]
hmmm...ok correct me if I am wrong

[quote]me(using holy weapon or endowed with holy) + me attack monster w/ holy attribute = can damage to the monster but only my status attack deals damage to monster[/quote]

if this is that you are talking about....I checked it with the latest svn but unlucky I can't reproduce it...^^

Originally posted by [b]Ikari Gendo[/b]
to state it clear: can you hit the emperium (holy) with a weapon which has been endowed holy by aspersio

Originally posted by [b]MarkZD[/b]
[quote name='Ikari Gendo' timestamp='1341082990' post='11420']
to state it clear: can you hit the emperium (holy) with a weapon which has been endowed holy by aspersio
[/quote]

According to Renewal sources you can since part of your atk is status atk which is not affected by element(except for Mild Wind), in this case it'll always be neutral regardless the endow you're using.

Renewal atk, matk, def(if I'm not wrong) and mdef are not implemented yet, this is the possible reason it's not working as it should.


[quote name='Wildcard' timestamp='1332446808' post='7883']
I assume you are talking about renewal ATK here. The formula currently employed is indeed far from correct. Research on that subject is ongoing, but I expect it will be a while before we get it done.
[/quote]
[url="http://rathena.org/board/tracker/issue-5404-atk-calculation/page__gopid__7359#entry7359"]http://rathena.org/board/tracker/issue-5404-atk-calculation[/url]

[url="http://rathena.org/board/tracker/issue-5689-renewal-matk-and-mdef-formula-issue/page__gopid__8865#entry8865"]http://rathena.org/board/tracker/issue-5689-renewal-matk-and-mdef-formula-issue[/url]

[url="http://rathena.org/board/tracker/issue-6066-edp-should-no-longer-increase-final-damage/page__st__20"]http://rathena.org/board/tracker/issue-6066-edp-should-no-longer-increase-final-damage[/url]

[url="http://rathena.org/board/tracker/issue-5613-game-system-matk/page__gopid__8531#entry8531"]http://rathena.org/board/tracker/issue-5613-game-system-matk[/url]

[url="http://rathena.org/board/tracker/issue-6074-renewal-defense/"]http://rathena.org/b...enewal-defense/[/url]

Originally posted by [b]Jhedzkie[/b]
try using mysteltain weapon and use aspersio. try to hit the emp on woe, when it hits, then weapon property stays as is. since mysteltain is shadow if im not mistaken, it wont miss on emp. however when it missed, means the enchanted holy property to the weapon overrides the weapon property itself. meaning, it would have the attack of the char (stat attack) + weapon atk (mysteltain, that changed from shadow, to holy since you used aspersio).

((char base attack (which is neutral) + weapon attack (which is shadow)) * holy property) vs Emp (holy)
therefore holy vs holy = miss.

if im saying irrelevant stuff, just ignore what i said. but this is how i understand what you guys are discussing.

Originally posted by [b]malufett[/b]
@Jhedzkie
that is what I'm also thinking and understand...

[quote]to state it clear: can you hit the emperium (holy) with a weapon which has been endowed holy by aspersio[/quote]
BTW are you using post damage modifier skill? like enchant blade cause this one is not modifiable by endows since it is force neutral and it is added after the def reduction and elemental modification...

Originally posted by [b]MarkZD[/b]
[quote name='malufett' timestamp='1341107936' post='11428']
@Jhedzkiethat is what I'm also thinking and understand...
[/quote]

It doesn't seem to be this way anymore, otherwise it'd be stated it's affected by endow element as it's stated to wATK, eATK.

Also, this would not be in there:
[quote][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]Normally [/size][/font][/color][url="http://irowiki.org/wiki/Neutral"]Neutral[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3] except when using [/size][/font][/color][url="http://irowiki.org/wiki/Mild_Wind"]Mild Wind[/url][color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3].[/size][/font][/color][/quote]

Also, sATK is not reduced by:
[quote][list]
[*]Ignores [url="http://irowiki.org/wiki/Element"]element[/url] resistance effects such as Raydric Card or Asprika.
[*]Ignores % ATK item effects such as The Sign or Hydra Card.
[/list]
[/quote]

In this case, it's more like each attack is calculated separately and in the end it's added all together or something like that.

Following this logic: 100% resistance against an element would not prevent from beeing physical-hitted as well as it will still hit emperium even with holy endowed weapon.

[quote]
[color=#000000][font=verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=2][background=rgb(249, 249, 249)]About 1 minute. How do you want protect emp by using it if every hit on emperium deals 1 damage?[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=2][background=rgb(249, 249, 249)]Level2 insignias are 'forced endow' so the attacker weapon will be have element depending on the insignia used. And only neutral can damage emp ryt?Emp should still be holy. So when attacking with holy element, you would miss (prerenewal). [u][b]But thanks to RE, there'll "always" be a part of neutral damage, even if you could inflict holy endow.[/b][/u][/background][/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]
[url="http://forums.irowiki.org/archive/index.php/t-80295.html"]http://forums.irowiki.org/archive/index.php/t-80295.html[/url]

Originally posted by [b]malufett[/b]
finally someone makes this thing clear...

ok after I evaluate the RE ATK formula yes you are right...

[quote]final damage = [ [b]modified base atk +[/b] modified weapon atk +- variace atk][/quote]

so regardless the value of calculated weapon atk the base atk still hit..

however this will be fixed soon as Wilcard workig for it...

thanks MarkZD problem solved!

Originally posted by [b]Angezerus[/b]
Uhm... don't forget equipment attack


[quote]
[left][size=5][u][b][font="arial, sans-serif"][color="#000000"]ATK = sATK * 2 + wATK + eATK + masteries[/color][/font][/b][/u][/size][/left]


[u]STATUS ATK = floor ( Base level / 4 + STR + DEX / 5 + LUK / 3)[/u][list]
[*]Normally Neutral except when using Mild Wind.
[*]Ignores element resistance effects such as Raydric Card or Asprika.
[*]Ignores % ATK item effects such as The Sign or Hydra Card.
[/list]
[u]Weapon ATK = (Base Weapon ATK + Variance + STR + Bonus Refinement Bonus) * Size Penalty[/u]
[indent=1]Variance = ± 0.05 * Weapon Level * Base Weapon ATK[/indent]
[indent=1]STR Bonus = Base Weapon ATK * STR/200[/indent][list]
[*]Affected by weapon element when using a melee weapon.
[*]Affected by ammunition element when using a ranged weapon or specific skill.
[*]Affected by element resistance effects such as Raydric Card or Asprika.
[*]Increased by % ATK item effects such as The Sign or Hydra Card.
[*]Multiplied by 5 when affected by Enchant Deadly Poison .
[*]Though the STR bonus takes Element , it is still considered Neutral .
[*]STR Bonus is always reduced by Ghost armor.
[*]STR Bonus is only reduced by Neutral resistance like Raydric card, if the weapon is Neutral too.
[*]Variance is a random number ranging from (-5% * Weapon Level * Base Weapon ATK) to (5% * Weapon Level * Base Weapon ATK)
[/list]
[u]Equipment ATK is the sum of ATK gained from equips other than weapons. Support buffs tend to increase this ATK, too, but not all of them fit into this category.[/u][list]
[*]Affected by weapon element when using a melee weapon.
[*]Affected by ammunition element when using a ranged weapon or specific skill.
[*][b]Ammunition ATK is added here when using DEX based weapon.[/b]
[*]Any +ATK you get from cards, including cards in weapon, is added here.
[*]Affected by element resistance effects like Raydric Card or Asprika.
[*]Increased by % ATK item effects like The Sign and Hydra Card.
[*]Multiplied by 4 when affected by Enchant Deadly Poison.
[/list]
[u]Mastery ATK is a special kind of ATK that has no elemental properties. While most masteries come from Passive Skills , there are some Active Skills such as Camouflage or Zen.[/u][list]
[*]Because masteries are not elemental, they are unaffected by Ghost armors or Raydric Cards.
[*]Since masteries are direct increases to ATK, [b]they are affected[/b] by skill modifiers, DEF and damage increasing/decreasing effects.
[/list]
[/quote]

Originally posted by [b]MarkZD[/b]
[quote name='Angezerus' timestamp='1341475454' post='11621']
Uhm... don't forget equipment attack
[/quote]

There's no eATK, we don't have Renewal implemented, remember?
But it's good to point it'll only be right when Re-ATK is complete.

Originally posted by [b]Angezerus[/b]
[quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]But it's good to point it'll only be right when Re-ATK is complete.[/size][/font][/color][/quote]

Yup.

====> [url="http://rathena.org/board/tracker/issue-5404-atk-calculation/"]http://rathena.org/board/tracker/issue-5404-atk-calculation/[/url]

Originally posted by [b]esu1214[/b]
Nomal weapon_atk or weapon_skill should be divided into [code](1). weapon_atk = (watk *str/200 + watk + refine + overrefine )* size_mod / 100 + status->eatk;[/code] and [code](2).status->batk * 2[/code], where str will become dex in long_atk mode.

ele_fix and sd_side_cardfix will only affect (1), not (2), except long_atk_rate.
Then in battle.c find [code]static struct Damage battle_calc_weapon_attack[/code], in the function find[code]//Card Fix, sd side[/code], dont add (2) here, find[code]//Card Fix, tsd sid Race mod[/code], add (2) just before this code.